Author Topic: Are They Monon?  (Read 7530 times)

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George Lortz

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Are They Monon?
« on: December 14, 2012, 09:48:44 am »
I bought a batch of steam locomotive photos recently, some of which had Monon content.  Two of them were unlabeled and the tender was not visible.  I have attached photos of 2-8-2 #528 and 2-10-2 #605.  The numbers and wheel arrangements indicate they may be Monon.  Anyone got any ideas or comments?

George L.

Ron Marquardt

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #1 on: December 14, 2012, 10:07:34 am »
George, I checked our archive photos to do a comparison, but we do not have a photo of either the #528 or the #605.  They do look like Monon though.  / Ron

George Lortz

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #2 on: December 14, 2012, 10:46:04 am »
Ron,

I checked all my Monon steam images also and didn't have images of these two locomotives either.  Interesting because I have images of all of their sisters.  The batch of photos I bought had several Monon steam images, but there was no written description on any of them.

They do look like their sister locomotives and I'm sure willing to say they're Monon!  Add them to the Photo Archives if you wish.  Do we have an archive category called "Possibly Monon".

George L.




Steve Dolzall

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #3 on: December 14, 2012, 04:08:06 pm »
The photo of 605 shows a class designation of "L-1" under the cab number which is correct for a Monon engine of that wheel arrangement. I can't read the class designation on the 528. If it's a Monon engine the class number would be "J-1".

Ken Weller

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #4 on: December 14, 2012, 05:59:32 pm »
Here is another picture of 528, at Louisville in 1929.  Can't remember where I got this image - may have nabbed it off of an eBay auction.
K Weller

George Lortz

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #5 on: December 14, 2012, 09:58:42 pm »
Steve,

Thanks for the information.  I noticed the writing under the number, but couldn't figure out what it was for.

Ken,

Thanks for the additional photo of #528.  I have a large collection of Monon steam photos and for some strange reason, I didn't have one of either of these two locomotives.  I've noticed in the past that whenever there seems to be a shortage of photos of a particular locomotive, there either was a wreck that took it out of service for a long time or it was sold off early in its life.  Maybe that's what happened to these two locomotives.

George L.

Eric Reinert

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #6 on: December 15, 2012, 12:40:22 am »
I have been inspecting all the photos I have of the Monon's 2-10-2's looking specifically for two things: In what time frame did the Monon use this style Railroad Roman script for the numbers. (See color-inverted image I've attached that shows the font more clearly) I've seen some J class Mikes in pictures from around 1920 that seem to have this font, but not any L-1's.
The other confounding thing is the generator and bell positions in the spots that this picture of #605 shows. All pics I've got of the L-1's show the bell on the smokebox front and the generator between the stack and the sand dome.  I agree these both look like Monon engines and the 605 was among the first 2-10-2's scrapped in March 1941 along with the 602 & 603. The fact these engines were rarely photographed may explain all the differences, and like Mr. Marquardt is fond of reminding us, "there are no absolutes in railroading" and Shops may have had a reason to relocate the generator and bell, who knows...  Other roads also had Class L-1 2-10-2's (New Haven & Wabash at least) but no other road had them numbered in the 600's like the Monon. I am almost convinced that these engines are indeed Monon engines. Thanks George, for posting these photos.
Eric Reinert

Steve Dolzall

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #7 on: December 15, 2012, 11:18:45 am »
I have a listing of Monon steam locomotives out of service effective April 1, 1939. Engine 528 shows out of service having been set aside on 12/17/31. Engine 605 also is shown out of service having been set aside on 6/23/33. I think goes a long way in explaining why photos of these locomotives seldom exist.

George Lortz

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #8 on: December 15, 2012, 11:41:54 am »
Eric and Steve,

Thanks for your input.  Sounds like the Monon had a few problems with these two locomotives.

George L.

J.Butcher

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #9 on: December 19, 2012, 07:59:20 pm »
I'd have to agree.  They definitely look MONON, with the capped stacks etc.  I wonder if they were wrecked and not repaired.  Hard times in the depression may have prevented their return to service.

Steve Dolzall

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #10 on: December 19, 2012, 08:29:05 pm »
Both engines were waiting for Class 2 repairs. The estimated repair cost for engine 528 was $17,000 and engine 605 the estimate was $16,500 both in 1939 dollars.
 
 On April 1, 1939 the Monon had 44 steam locomotives out of service. The dates that these locomotives had been laid up ranged from 11/22/1929 to 8/15/1938.

J.Butcher

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #11 on: December 19, 2012, 08:38:49 pm »
Wow!  Must have looked like a scrap yard on the railroad then.  What would class two repair include?

John Taylor

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2012, 11:46:53 am »
According to the dollartimes.com inflation calculator a 1939 dollar was worth $16.12 in today's money.  It would cost $274,040.00 for the J class locomotive and $265,980.00 for the L class locomotive for class 2 repairs.

Tim T Swan

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2012, 08:53:37 pm »
Eric, that Railroad Roman "font" was apparently what the L1 class 2-10-2's were delivered with.  See the attached Alco builders photo.  I have no idea how long the MONON continued using this style, but by the late 30's MONON locomotives were being lettered in a simpler block lettering style (second photo).  Beginning around 1940, their final lettering scheme was as shown in the third photo.

Eric Reinert

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Re: Are They Monon?
« Reply #14 on: December 28, 2012, 11:06:06 pm »
Tim,
Thanks for your reply. I still find it interesting that all pictures of the other L-1's I've seen, even from the early to mid 1920's (less than 10 years after being built), don't have the original style numbers nor do they retain the as-built bell and generator placement. Only this particular locomotive seems to have escaped these changes for upwards of 20?/25? years after being built. There's got to be a story in there somewhere, even if the story may be that perhaps this one was a bit of a lemon. Does the Society have any of the Monon's records for steam locomotive repair/rebuild?

And to answer Mr. Butcher's question:
Class 2 repairs would generally include: New Firebox, new flue sheets- front and back, new tubes and flues, any necessary heavy mechanical repairs and the wheels turned with new tires. Major stuff.

A big thank you to Mr. Dolzall for your information as well. I really appreciate you're willingness to share information from records that you've gotten your hands on over the years.

Eric Reinert

Eric Reinert