MONON BOARD
General Monon Discussions and Questions => Question and Answers (Q&A) => Topic started by: Ryan Rybarczyk on April 22, 2015, 05:05:45 pm
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- Any idea why the C&WI would own large lots on the SE corner of Ridge Road and the Monon in Munster?
- RoW trackage question: about 3/4 mile or so in length in North Hammond, on the north side of the Grand Calumet River. It is labelled CI&L trackage from just west of the Illinois State Line ( about 100'), coming off eastbound from the Wabash, running along with the IHB eastward, crossing Hohman Ave on the north side of American Steel, and continuing eastward for 4 more blocks to Torrance, and ending there? It is clearly marked CI&L, and it seems it was to serve all the industry and the small yards just to the north of the Grand Calumet River. What is weird is that it branches off the Wabash and not the Monon....in Illinois, no less. Why did the Monon own it and maintain it? Or is this just mislabeled?
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Forgot to mention that this information was taken from a 1915 RoW map.
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Ryan,
Can you scan and post this map, or a portion thereof?
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My father obtained it from Cookie years ago and it was in very very poor shape....will see what we can do.
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Eric, this map or one like it is in the archives' Hammond drawer. I have a scan of it on my home desktop but I won't be back there for another couple of weeks. I'll send it to you then, if I remember to.
I don't remember it showing anything about the Wabash, as Ryan states. He must mean the C&WI or IHB or B&OCT. Don't think the WAB ever had anything in the Stateline Tower area.
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The Wabash as I was referencing was the shared trackage with the B&OCT - the Wabash depot being off Hohman Avenue - on the east side of State Line Tower that then tied into C&WI.
My father is working on getting a digital image of the map to help with things.
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I look forward to seeing a copy of the map, thank you. The Wabash had trackage rights on the B&OCT from Clarke Jct. to State Line tower before joining the C&WI, but was the short section of trackage connecting the B&O with the C&WI past the north side of the tower Wabash owned or C&WI? This section is entirely in Indiana. Barely. There is a Wabash Avenue in Hammond. It's the first street that crosses the B&O East of where it crosses the former NKP. I don't know if this is an homage to the RR or the River however... And another question: Was the "Wabash Station" (that Ryan mentions in his post) the B&O station at Hohman Ave. and Hudson St.? Across the parking lot from the current South Shore station? Come to think of it, Bob Lalich probably has the answers to all these questions.
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Yeah, where is Bob? He's the real answer-man for north-end questions. Hope he's all right.
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My camera decided to die so these were taken with my wife's cell phone. I have tried to indicate the areas in question on the maps.
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Well, it does appear that the short section of trackage labeled as "Wabash" on that first map IS the short section adjacent to the North side of State Line Tower that connected their trackage rights on the B&OCT to the C&WI. The Monons' disconnected, industrial trackage that started behind the tower that lead to several industries East of Hohman Avenue is arguably the least known, least documented part of the entire railroad. I had seen this section labeled on the 1947 Trains Magazines' graphic (www.monon.monon.org/stateline/01-17StateLinemap1947.jpg) that shows it as abandoned or torn out. I wonder when it saw it's last movement? Does anyone out there have an "industries served" list from the 1900's to the 1930's that might shed some light?
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Eric, Ryan, etc:
I've been trying almost daily since we've returned home to forward a scan of a great drawing showing the trackage east of State Line and north of the Grand Calumet River all the way to Calumet Ave. It is from the Archives Hammond drawer B4 and clearly identifies the Monon's trackage into that area as of 11/16/25, plus it identifies and clearly locates the companies and their structures and spurs there at that time.
However, MononBoard does not seem to be willing to let me attach it, no matter how many times and ways I try. It is an Adobe Acrobat (.pdf) file, 14.5 MB, which is apparently too large for me to attach.
Anyone interested in seeing this scan, E-mail me off-list (at tpswan@charter.net) and I will be happy to forward it to you.
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To Bob Wheeler:
I just got you message about wanting a copy of the scan of the 11/16/25 north Hammond map of the Monon industrial trackage east of State Line tower. Bob, please send me your E-mail address to I can sned it to you via regular E-mail.
I can't scan it in smaller sections. I don't have the paper hard-copy; that's down in Salem in the Archives. I received scans of the entire B4 Hammond drawer last year when I volunteered to catalog its contents for the Society. There are lots of amazing, even surprising stuff in that drawer, like evidence that an older Monon yard once existed (until around 1915) adjacent to the Erie yard in downtown Hammond, about where the joint Erie/Monon depot would eventually be built. And maybe a hundred or so drawings and plans for the 1954 South Hammond freighthouse. Also many wild and different City of Hammond proposals and schemes to consolidate all downtown railroad trackage and eliminate grade crossings, etc, etc. Fascinating stuff.
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Interesting questions Ryan. I have copies of those 1915 valuation drawings and have wondered about the lot in Munster as well. I asked John Vaisvil, longtime C&WI dispatcher, about it. He wasn't certain but said that at one time the C&WI proposed running commuter trains on the mainline to Hammond. The parcel may have been purchased for a future station location. It appears that the Monon may have used the parcel for a station at the time of the valuation. Does anyone have a 1915 PTT to verify?
AFAIK, the C&WI never did operate commuter trains on the mainline. Incidentally, the C&WI commuter trains on the Dolton Branch appear to have come about due to the C&EI deciding to run all their passenger trains out of LaSalle St station for a short time around the turn of the century. The C&WI filled the void by running a few trains to/from Dolton and kept up the service after the C&EI returned.
The mysterious Monon industrial line on the north side of State Line Tower connected to C&WI trackage. The C&WI did not have a charter in Indiana and their ownership ended at the state line as a result. I didn't think the Wabash actually owned the track labeled as such in the drawing. The SLIC and B&OCT each owned one of the two tracks connecting the C&WI to the joint SLIC/B&OCT line going east from SL to Clarke Jct.
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Here is a 1943 drawing of SL which shows the Monon North Hammond track and other interesting details that were gone after WWII.
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Ryan, may I request/suggest that you use painter's tape on the back side of the drawing and take new photos? That was a real tangle of tracks east of Hohman Ave and north of the river.
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Thanks, Bob, for posting that 1943 track diagram of State Line Jct. A PRR drawing! Wonder why, given no PRR trackage is involved.
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Tim, the SL&IC track, labeled SC&S on the drawing, which extended from State Line Tower to Clarke Jct was owned by the PRR. The PRR also had trackage rights on IHB's former East Chicago Belt. Consequently, PRR trains were regular visitors at SL.
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Thanks for the clarification, Bob!
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Eric wonders when that Monon industrial trackage along the north bank of the Grand Calumet River saw its last movement. I can’t answer his question completely, but I’ve located a Monon tracing dated December 1942 that indicates it was still Monon RoW as of that date. It is a tracing of a C&WI print showing the “Layout of Tracks in the Vicinity of State Line Interlocker†with the first track north of the interlocking tower clearly labeled “CI&L Industry Trackâ€.
I haven't been able to attach the scan of the drawing. Apparently it's too large a file for the MononBoard system to handle. So anybody wanting a copy, contact me at tpswan@charter.net and I'll send you one--hopefully.
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Mike Aufderheide has found a way to reduce that December 1942 State Line drawing's size without reducing its clarity or readability one bit. It is attached. Thanks, Mike!
The drawing clearly labels the first track north of the interlocking tower as "CI&L Industry Track" plus shows it leading off C&WI trackage in Illinois.
Don't be fooled by the drawing's unusual orientation. Take note of the direction arrow in its upper right corner.
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Rather than start a new thread I am adding this comment here about NORTH ARROWS since they are mentioned about the CI&L Drawing in the comment below.
I learned so long ago that I have forgotten when. It was possibly in school before even starting to work.
ALLWAYS check the north arrow on DRAWINGS, or VALPLANS (not necessarily maps).
The drawings are oriented so that there is maximum information on the drawing. Also the company may have a standard way of orienting the drawings. State Highway drawings and many railroad VALPLANS have the southerly or easterly direction, but not necessarily due south or east on the LEFT end of the drawing. This makes the stationing or MPs read from left to right.
I followed this practice in making the schematics on the Tour GUIDE Books. In fact there were two north arrows one Compass North and the other Railroad North as they nearly always differed.
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Thanks for posting the drawing Tim and Mike! I have not seen that one before.