MONON BOARD
Monon Scale Modeling => Ho Scale Monon => Topic started by: Joe Land on February 19, 2012, 09:17:39 pm
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Have any of you modeled F3A #64 [III] / 109 in it's unique configuration, sort of a cross between F3 and F7?
If so, I would like to see a photo of your work.
Joe
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Jim
Show me a picture of her.
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Don't have one in my laptop...Tomorrow when my grandsons are not using my PC...LOL...
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Found it
In my version I have it but the top fans are still high ones.
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I have a couple of Tom Smart/Lloyd Kimble photos taken at distance on a freight train. She looks to have two high hood fans and two short hood fans, and only two portholes, F3 type chicken wire grills.
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Joe,
Here's my model of 64A. Unfortunately, I found out about the differing hood fans after I built the model!
Roger Nulton
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Roger, but for your era, isn't the model with the high fans correct, I believe 64 came with those?
Ron, do you have any pictures of F3 #64 when it came onto the property? Which would have been F3 51A and later #101 because the original 64A was scrapped after Ash Grove?
F3 #64 also depends on which F3 of that number you are modeling.
But your F3's sure look good.....
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You're right, Rick. I found another pic of #64 in 1947, and it has 4 high fans. Phew: I guess the guy who was informing me didn't have all the info! Thanks for that, and thanks for the compliment.
It's too bad we have to compress the images: it loses some of the detail.
Roger
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When I clicked on your last posting picture, it looks pretty detailed and good to me. I can see the F letter right up front on the side.
Note: After you click on a picture, hover your mouse over the picture, if it has a magnifying glass with a + sign, click on the picture to zoom in.
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Yes Rick. The second one is 10X as big as the first. I'm trying to establish a range of what will work here.
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Have any of you modeled F3A #64 [III] / 109 in it's unique configuration, sort of a cross between F3 and F7?
If so, I would like to see a photo of your work.
Joe
Joe, several of us have the HO scale Intermountain model of either or both 62B and 64A. IM modeled them accurately, with the single headlight, low fans, and 2 portholes. Another manufacturer has also produced them in N-scale. No photo of my 64A. I do have a great color EMD builders photo of the two prototypes, but I haven't been able to figure out how to attach photos to this new-fangled Board-list yet.
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Hi Tim,
Here's the one I was modeling after. My model is a modified Overland F in S scale.
Roger
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When built, 64A &62A the 1st had high fans. 64A & 62A the 2nd are shown new at EMD in 1948 with all low fans. I have seen a photo of 64A dated May, 1956 where 64A has two high fans and two low fans still with chicken wire grills. So far all the photos I have found of the unit renumbered 109 (which would be 1963 or later) show it with the chicken wire grills removed.
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Here is #109 with chicken wire grills
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MON 109: Monon In Color, p.89, marked as sometime in the 60's: MON 109 with no chicken wire between the 2 portholes, 1 high fan (forwardmost fan), 3 low fans behind the high one
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True the photo of 109 does show "chicken wire" covering the air intakes, but does not retain the "chicken wire" covering between the portholes as built.
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Rick, as per your earlier request, we have no pictures of the 101 in the archives, and the only picture we have of the 51A does not show the roof fans. There are a number of different photos that do show the high fans, among those the one Roger had of the 64 coming through the cut on Bedford hill. / Ron
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Ron,
I have three shots of 101 -- all 3 show 4 high fans.
2 shots of 51-A -- both show 4 high fans
2 more shots of 109 dated 1962 -- fans arranged (front to back): hi, lo, hi, lo;
standard screening at top of carbody; no chicken wire between portholes.
Next time I visit maybe we can get these scanned so you will have them for the archive.
Jim
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You guys get way too hung up on things like fan configurations. On any give day, any engine may have had a combination of high and low fans. For example, engine 109 (with high fans) may have been in the backshop for a major overhall, and engine 101 (with low fans) may have come in from Chicago with a bad fan. If they didn't have one to replace the bad fan, they would have ordered one, and in the meantime "borrowed" a fan off the 109 to keep the 101 running. When the new fan came in, they may have changed them back or maybe not, depending on the requirements of the service.
What I'm saying is that in 1948 you can't say all the fams were this way or that way. You can't even do it for one month in 1848. If you had good records you might be able to say it for March 3, 1948, but why would it matter. Most modelers are concerned with modeling an era, not a particular day. A railroad was always in flux, depending on the demands of the service. It's just something that we as modelers have to accept. / Ron
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I like that explanation......... Real RRing.
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I would agree -- except: have had modelers & railroaders tell me stuff like "the Monon never did that" & "109 never looked like that" -- until I pull out the photo I modeled from. So I say "pick a photo and model what you see".
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And have some fun while building it....
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It seems time for a review of the history of F3 A-B-A sets #62 and #64 before and after the disastrous collision of these two sets at Ash Grove, June 1947. All six units had been delivered new early that same year with high fans, dual headlights, and three portholes. A-units #62B and #64A were totaled in that wreck, along with one of the B's. In the following months there were several unit renumberings while the MONON was scrambling to deal with its sudden power shortage, but in the end, the two A-units were replaced with 2 brand new F3A's in March 1948, carrying the same road numbers. These new units had the newer low fans, single headlights, and only two portholes on each side. These were the only F3 units the MONON ever had with the two portholes, and along with two A's from an EMD demo set also acquired during that time (becoming dual-service units #85), among the only units with single headlights. The two new units were also the only ones delivered with the low fans, but later photos show that these were freely mixed during shopping with the higher fan housings.
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Here's a poor image of the EMD builders photo of the replacement units 62B and 64A.
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What was the purpose of the portholes?
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Thanks, Tim. Clearly I need to unsolder my brass high fans and replace them with low fans, then repaint the roof. Another project to put on the list!
I have posted a photo of your more accurate model. Hope you don't mind.
Roger
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Thank you Tim, your last sentence makes my point. / Ron
"The two new units were also the only ones delivered with the low fans, but later photos show that these were freely mixed during shopping with the higher fan housings".
Joe also asked a good question, and I have no idea what the portholes were for. I could never figure out whether they were intended for looking in to, or out of?
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There is a color 5 x 7 postcard with the 2 replacement F-s ready to be shipped -- horn and stack opening covered over. You still see these for sale at flea markets, or if needed, I can get one off to Ron to scan. Ron's point is also made by 209 as it sat at Shops forlorn and sans prime mover -- 2 hi fans & 2 lo fans. There is also a shot of Southern F-s being returned to EMD -- sans fans. Seems railroads probably salvaged those fans for replacement use.
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Is this the postcard you are referring to, James?
Roger
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This new MononBoard is not working correctly. Just this afternoon (2/21) I posted two messages describing the history of #64A and a 1948 builders photo showing it and its sister #62B. WTH are they???
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You made one post Reply #22 on: Today at 02:55:10 PM that displays for me. This one was about the history.
And Reply #23 on: Today at 03:26:18 PM which had the A-A Builders Photo postcards.
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Both are posted on page 2 of this topic. At the top of the topic click on 2. There are 3 pages total for this topic.
Joe
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Joe is correct Tim, they're both on here on Page 2. ::) / Ron
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I see them Tim, One with the description and one with the two pictures. Vic
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Here are three other Monon #109 photos:
109-01e - No photo information
109-02e - Chicago, IL; 1966; gmo291 collection; Pielet Brothers scrap yard
109-03e - 1966; Strombeck collection
George L.
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Very nice models indeed!