Advance Train Order Indicators

[Bill Darnaby]

The Monon employee timetables going back to the 1930's refer to advance train order indicators in the special instructions.  How were these used and in what situations?

[Ron Marquardt]

Hey Bill, good to have you on here.  I've attached a copy of the instructions from the timetable, but essentially the Advance Train Order light gave a train permission to come on up the main track to the operator's office to receive additional orders when their train would have otherwise been restricted at the siding.  For example, if I were on a northbound train and had to take siding at Roachdale to meet a superior train, when lighted, the advance train order light located at the south end of the siding would let me come on up the main track and get additional orders to advance me against that superior train.  I think they were used primarily when a superior train had problems and was going to cause lengthy delays to the inferior train.  / Ron

PS, I've also attached a photo taken at the S/E of Roachdale, looking northward, that shows the advance train order light right above the number plate on the mast of the NB signal.

[Bill Darnaby]

Thanks, Ron.  So who operated the indicator?  The nearest open office or the dispatcher?

[Ron Marquardt]

Bill, the telegraph operator at that station, to which the train will advance for orders, controls the light under the direction of the train dispatcher.  For example, the train order office at Roachdale sat just north of the north switch at the B&O crossing, and if a NB preparing to head in at the south end of Roachdale got the ATO light, they would come on up the main to the Roachdale depot for more orders.  Of course, it the Roachdale office wasn't open, the train would just head in, and would be stuck there until all superior trains had passed, or someone brought them some carrying orders to move them.  The ATO light would not come into the equation.  / Ron

[Bill Darnaby]

Hmmm...until I saw your photo I did not realize that the indicator was at the entrance to the siding.  Was this the typical installation?  In other words, the purpose of the ATO was just avoid having a train head in the siding if the operator knew there were orders advancing it against a superior train?

[Ron Marquardt]

You're exactly right Bill, that's what it was for.  As far as the conversation between the dispatcher and the operator concerning it's use, Rick Dreistadt would know the details of that better than I.

/ Ron

[Rick Dreistadt]

Good morning, everyone!  Nothing exotic about conversation between dispatcher and operator.  The dispatcher would tell the operator "display your advance train order indicator and 19, copy 3."  Without going upstairs and digging out a timetable, I believe there was an advance train order indicator at the north end of Linden and at the south end of Fogg.  At least those are the only ones I remember using as a dispatcher.
Rick

[Bill Darnaby]

Thanks, Rick and Ron.  I do see in my timetable #12 (1960) that there a northbound indicator at Fogg and I presume that it was at the south end of the siding.  The next open office was at Salem (day only) approximately 4 miles north.  Was this the farthest a train would have to advance from indicator to office?  From the timetable I deduce that in the typical installation a train would only have to advance not much more than the length of the siding to get to the office.

[Rick Dreistadt]

You're right, Bill.  A northbound train at Fogg receiving the advance train order light could only advance to the train order signal at Salem. 
Rick

[Robert Gibson]

Very interesting and informative exchange.  Thanks to Bill for asking and Rick and Ron for their answers.

[Bill Darnaby]

So...just to make sure I have a grasp of this...the Fogg indicator, being almost 4 miles from the closest open office, was the exception to the rule.  In all other installations the nearest open office to the indicator was only just beyond, or a little ways, beyond the siding switch at the opposite end of the entrance to the siding at which the indicator was located.  Correct?

[Rick Dreistadt]

Yes, that's right, Bill.
Rick

[Bill Darnaby]

I have not seen such indicators on other railroads.  Does anyone know the why the Monon adopted this practice and how it picked the locations for its application?