Is this a Monon Steam Locomotive ?

[Pete Pedigo]

Can anyone do some magic on this photo and determine if this is a Monon Steam Locomotive or a Southern Locomotive ?

Pete

[Pete Pedigo]

Ta Daa !  Now I will attach the photo.  Duh

[Jim Osborne]

I don't know about the locomotive, but the building behind it is certainly West Baden. Was Monon the only line that had street running in West Baden/French Lick?

[Pete Pedigo]

Yes it is West Baden.  The train is sitting at the West Baden Depot.  The building is situated so the 3 sides are usuable.  This side is along the MONON track. The crossing in the foreground is the main entrance to West Baden Spring Hotel.  The other side of the bulilding is along the main BLVD where the trolley ran in the street. 

I am trying to determine if this is a north bound Monon Train loading to head north, or a Southern Train that has pulled up to unload at West Baden and will back up to the Wye and turn to head back southbound.

Pete

[Ron Marquardt]

Pete, we've debated this picture for years, and honestly don't know whether it's Monon or Southern.  / Ron

[Pete Pedigo]

I thought we had been debating a colorized post card of a southbound trains.

These two pictures are southbound trains shown as Southern trains.  If that is the case, then the Southern turned their trains on the wye and back into West Baden.   That being the normal practice then the  photo I posted of the train facing North should be a MONON Train turned on the wye at French Lick upon departure.

Pete

[Ron Marquardt]

We debated the other picture long, long ago, before there ever was a Pete Pedigo.....  The color postcard was more recently.  Your assumption is correct if the Southern trains turned on the wye before backing into West Baden, which is probably the way it was done.  However, it could have been done the other way too.  As far as I know, we don't have any evidence of it being done one way or the other, unless Uncle Bob has some Southern train times that show the delays one way or the other.  Which ever direction it was done, there would have been about a 10 or 15 minute delay turning the train.   / Ron

[Steve Dolzall]

Well, someone has to go out on a limb and vote first. My opinion is that the locomotive is a Southern engine.

[Pete Pedigo]

A debate before 1953 !   I don't believe it. LOL   

Information from Southern followers is nearly non existant.  It is as if the Southern Branch to French Lick never exisited. 

[Joe Land]

A question...Did Southern engines have the same "upside down pie plate" cover on their smokestacks as Monon engines?

[Steve Dolzall]

From a passenger standpoint, it would have made more sense for an arriving Southern N/B train to proceed directly to West Baden and unload the passengers  and then backup and turn the train for the S/B trip. I guess we really don't know what the typical operation was. Regarless of what the "preferred" method was for the Southern to turn trains at French Lick, the situation at French Lick on any given day when the Southern train arrived could have made a differnt approach frequently necessary.

[Robert Wheeler]

Sorry group
Moore Southern timetables which I have only three in Official Guides would be needed to determine the "delay" at French Lick. ETTs would be bettter.

Comparison of those times was not easy as the dates did not correspond to the CI&L ETT dates. Some times did check exactly, some did not and even some SOU trains were missing from the OGs. However the scheduled running times were always five minutes between French Lick and West Baden. BTW the OGs only showed departure times at French Lick (both ways) which were the same as CI&L arrival or departure time when they agreed within the hour. Apparently there were bulletin orders or something similar issued when the SOU Schedules changes were made between CI&L timetable changes.

All the CI&L Timetables show are the times departing French Lick after any turn movement northward or arriving French Lick before the turn movement northward.

The running time for all trains on the CI&L was always 5 minutes for the 1.1 mile trip in either direction for both the scheduled and "back up" of Southern trains. BTW not all scheduled trains were shown to have a back up movement. Some "turned" at West Baden and returned as scheduled trains. One of the directions would have been by backing or the engine was run around the train and operated backward. I doubt that they would run around for a five minute run to/from French Lick. Right, Ron?

[Ron Marquardt]

Right Bob, the trains that did not show a back-up movement had to cut the power off, take it back to French Lick and turn it, and then come back for the train, or they backed to Frecnh Lick and turned the train on the trip south.  These are Southern trains I'm talking about.  / Ron

PS, the other possibility, of course, is that they shoved back to French Lick and put their trains away in the hotel tracks, then turned their power.  Perhaps some of the southern trains had a layover at French Lick.