KK Cut name?

[J.Butcher]

Greetings gents....I'm sure someone knows the answer to this....Why is it called Ku Klux cut?  i have always wondered that.  Walked through it a couple years ago, very odd feature on the Monon........

[Ron Marquardt]

Monon employee oral history always held that Clan members would hold their meetings on the top of the hill above the cut, and on occasion, someone they considered an offender would find their way down onto the tracks in front of an oncoming train.  / Ron

[J.Butcher]

Thought as much, it really is a narrow cut, hardly seems possible that trains passed through there.  Thanks!

[Tim T Swan]

Narrow indeed!  Here's a 1947 photo illustrating this.

[George Lortz]

Where exactly is the infamous Ku Klux Kut?  Is it accessable by car and hiking?  I'd like to see it in person and take some photos.

George L.

[Ron Marquardt]

Here's a track profile page and Google Earth image that show the location.  No, I don't know if it's now on private property or not.  Sorry.  / Ron

[Tom Kepshire]

If it is real wet, it may be hard to access. I tried back in 2005 and 2006 and was not able to get back to the cut because of the conditions.

[Tim T Swan]

I walked back into the cut in March 2002.  Head north out of Bedford on Peerless Road, then east on Rawlins Mill Road.  You will reach the old Monon embankment and pass through where there was once a small RR overpass.  The is little trace of any bridge abutments or anything, so the embankment will not be very obvious.  Immediately east of the old embankment is a narrow county lane called "Harmony Hill" road, if I recall correctly, which heads north paralleling the embankment (see 1st photo, taken from the road junction).  Park there and proceed north on foot along the embankment (like my wife is doing in the photo).  In a few hundred yards the ground will have risen well above the railroad grade and if you are walking on the old roadbed, you will be entering KK Cut (second photo).  The foliage in there is thick and well grown over, so the best time to see it is like right now or in the winter.  Easiest way is probably to drive up to the crest of the hill and then walk in toward the cut and see it from above (third photo).

Back then, I talked to a guy moving the grass on the east side of Harmony Hill road, the landowner he said, and he was unaware there had ever been a railroad through there, and had never even heard the name "MONON".  And that was less than ten years after the line's abandonment.  Go figure.  Out of sight-out of mind.   A good example of why a RR historical association like MRHTS is needed.   /Tim.

[George Lortz]

Tim,

Many thanks for the directions and the photos.  Sounds like I better get going now before the leaves come out.

George L.

[Christopher Stone]

I was reading this posting a few weeks ago, and looked up at my Monon Calendar, and the April 2014 picture looks a lot like this. Then tonight I was reading some back issues of THL and found another Bennett photo of the same location in the Feb 2012 issue (page 21). I then found a larger version in Hilton's book (page 182). The rock outcroppings to the left and the trees in the background (especially the middle tree with the branch that seems to do a 90 degree bend) match. 

So then I started comparing the rock outcroppings in the various pictures. Thankfully the curve of the track makes it easy to distinguish north facing vs south-facing photos. It's a little hard to tell, but the rock outcroppings do seem to line up. Notice in particular that layers of rock closest to track level are very shallow and tend to break off in small chunks. Some of the larger outcroppings higher up also seem to line up with the 2002 photos, but it's a little hard to tell with these digital images. If anyone has access to the negatives, it would be interesting to do some more comparison. As this seems to be a place that Bennett returned to several times, I would not be surprised if these photos turn out to be taken at this same location. Did Bennett also take the photo of the F-Units that are confirmed to be in the KK Cut?

George, if you make it out there try to take some photos of the rock strata on the inside of the curve, especially from midway inside the cut facing toward the south entrance.  If we can match up a couple of specific outcroppings we might be able to identify some additional photos of this area. I wish I could join you on this expedition, but unfortunately I'm a few thousand miles away.

[Ron Marquardt]

[not allowed]opher, while what you're saying is possible, and I don't know for sure, I believe because of the position of the pole lines in the two pictures, both trains were southbound when the pictures were taken, and that would make the Bennett photo curve the opposite of the Klu Klux photo curve.  I say this because between Louisville and Lafayette the pole lines were generally on the east side of the tracks, and we often use this as a go by when trying to deternine whether trains in photos were NB or SB.  Also, if you look the KKC location up on Google Earth, the curve was a left hand curve for SB trains, so this would make the train in the F3's photo SB. 

I also think that Bennett tended to shoot most of his pictures between Harrodsburg and Wallace Jct., although early in his career he did shoot some up around the Kankankee river country when he was working in that area, and there were other rock cuts north of Harrodsburg that might show up in some of the Bennett photos.

We don't know who shot the KKC picture, and it could well have been Joe Bennett.  It would be nice to know for sure, and perhaps someday a negative or original print will show up to confirm your suspicions.

Steve Dolzall, you've seen a lot of the Bennett pictures.  Your thoughts please.  / Ron

[Christopher Stone]

If the Bennett photos where taken from the opposite direction (looking south) of the F3 photo (which matches the 2002 pics taken looking north), the curves match.  Unfortunately the shadows weren't much help in determining the direction, as the sun seems directly overhead in all 3 photos.

I'm from southern Monroe County and spend a lot of time in the 80s and 90s exploring the Monon, especially between Bloomington and Bedford. My parents were amateur geologists and we spent a lot of time exploring rock cuts, so these pictures bring back some fond memories. I did visit the KK Cut once, but I can't find my pictures (I did pictures from the same day of Harrodsburg, Guthrie, Bedford, and Orleans, but I have no idea where my KK Cut pics went).

[Steve Dolzall]

Well Ron, the photo on page 21 in THL February, 2012 and the photo shown in the Society calendar for April 2014 were both taken at the same place and we know they are southbound moves but, I don't think there are at  KKC. Of course, we are not sure who took the KKC photo but, I've never thought of it as a JFB photo primarily because the location is beyond his self imposed Harrodsburg south boundry which was seldom violated.

Steve

[Rick Berg]

Not sure this will help. There is a video from Chicago to Louisville on youtube.
You can identify the train passing through Salt Creek Bridge, then passing Thorton siding, Murdock Jct curve and heading up the hill to Bedford. During this part you see the train pass through the KKK cut. Very poor, jumpy and old video because it is taken from a moving train.
The KKK cut is at 4 minutes and 15 seconds into the film.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c4YDualZjFE

[George Lortz]

Rick,

The video taken from this southbound train shows the track bending to the right or slightly west.  If this is the KKC, it should help determine if other photos are KKC.

Nice find on the video.

George L.