Locomotive Fuel

[Sharon Eberhard]

I have been intrigued by the CSX commercial which shows how far they can haul one ton of freight on one gallon of fuel.  Relating this to what we know about the Monon, I have the following questions:

1.  How much fuel would be on an F3 when the train left Dearborn Station?  If the train was being pulled by an A-B hook up, would both units contain Fuel?  Would the fuel last all the way to Louisville or Indpls?

2.  How much fuel could a BL2 carry?  Were the other engines (FM, RS2, C420, etc) carrying about the same amount?  When a train left south out of Lafayette  and there were 3 or 4 C420s at the head of the traain, did all of them carry fuel?


Sharon
 

[David Longest]

Sharon,

What a fuelish question!


Hope all had a great THANKSGIVING!

[Steve Dolzall]

Monon Diesel Locomotive Fuel Capacities

RS-2,  #'s 26 and 27 1600 gal. fuel. All others 800 gal. fuel  plus 800 gal. water for S/G

H-15-44, #45 & 46 1600 gal. fuel.

BL-2's 1000 gal. fuel.

F-3's, 1200 gal. fuel. Passenger F-3A's carried 800 gal water for S/G except 84A & 84B which show 1050 gal. water. F3B #65C had 1400 gal. water capacity

C420's, #'s 501 & 502 1600 gal. fuel  plus 1500 gal water for S/G.  All others 3100 gal. fuel.

C628, 4000 gal. fuel.

U23B, 3000 gal. fuel.

[Rick Dreistadt]

On the L&N, we used to figure the locos would use about 2.5 to 3 gallons per mile under load.  Don't know about those earlier Monon locos but they were probably about equal.
Rick

[Steve Dolzall]

According to a PRR reference I have, A 16 cylinder GP-30 consumed 3.7 gallons per hour at idle and 128.0 gallons per hour at full load. The 20 cylinder SD-45 consumed 6.0 gallons per hour at idle and a rousing 194.0 gallons per hour at fulll load.

[Sharon Eberhard]

Thanks, guys for all the data provided but I still want to relate this to the Monon. 

If 73 left Shops with 3 units up front (maybe RS2 & a couple of C420s) were they all loaded with fuel??  Would one engine be enough to get them all the way south:?   If not, then what.

I have my doubts that multiple engines were fueled.  The Monon wreck put 4 units on the ground and piled them like matchsticks but there was no fire.   

[Tim T Swan]

Sharon, I may be wrong but I don't believe there were any fuel line connections between units.  If so, all units would have to be carrying their own fuel, unless maybe they were deadheading (as were two of the units involved in the Monon wreck).  Also, I've long understood that until they began cutting back on passenger service (to using a single F3), the usual practice was to refuel at Shops on each leg, running from there to L'ville and back before refueling again (and ditto to Dearborn and back).

Hope this answers at least some of your question.

[Ron Marquardt]

Tim, you're right, there were no fuel connections between units, just air hoses and electrical MU cables.  However, the 207 and 208 had water connections between the two units to equalize the steam generator water in the overhead tanks they carried.

The F3 passenger engines always fueled at Louisville, and took boiler water in the winter for the steam generators.  The Monon hostler did the fueling and water thing when the train arrived in the evening, and took water again the next morning before leaving time.  I worked that job many times when #5 and #6 were still on the daylight schedule.  / Ron

[Ken Weller]

Attached are 2 drawings from Archives drawer 77, re fuel facilities for diesel engines (different for passenger than for freight locos). 

[Gene Remaly]

Thanks for the fuel stand drawings ken

Now a question for eon

This fuel stand arraignment went out the window when the three unit lash up was three F units, Two F's and a BL-2, or, how about two FM 's and any thing else.  -three RS-2"s- two 420's and a RS-2,
two c 428's and a RS'2.
My question is - what about the sand filler ?

How about MR. Benham's 7 unit snow plow special ?

[Tim T Swan]

Ron, okay, the passenger units fueled at Louisville (at/near Union Station, or did they run light back to Youngtown?).  But you didn't sign on until 1960, was it?  I was talking about 1947 through the mid-50's.  Ken's posting of a 1947 diagram for a 2-unit "passenger" fuel stand at Shops would seem to confirm what I was saying.  Also, some years ago on the old Listserve somebody posted a photo of a passenger train refueling at Shops.  Wish I had saved it.

[Ron Marquardt]

Well, as monumental as my hiring out was in 1960, it didn't change the way engines were fueled since 1947.  They still ran the same mileage and burned the same fuel.  Using Rick's formula of 2.5 to 3.0 gallons per mile, that meant a round trip from Lafayette to Louisville and back would still use roughly 1,000 to 1,200 gallons, and since they had 1,200 gallon tanks, they wouldn't have made it if anything unusual had cropped up, so they always fueled them at Louisville.

The freight engines were serviced at the K&IT while the crews laid over (#73's crew came back on #72, and #71's crew came back on #70), and the hostler fueled the passenger engines at the depot at 10th. and Broadway.

There was a little spur track just east of the passenger shed throat, the car knocker would cut the engines off, the herder would line the switches, the hostler would spot the engine(s) on the spur, fuel them, and in summer shut them down.  The next morning he would start them early enough for them to warm up, the herder would line him onto the train, the car knocker would make the joint, and the hostler would give the train a brake test.  When the crew got on it was ready to go.

In the winter the hostler would fuel them and leave them run, take S/G boiler water at night and again the next morning, and set the S/G's up on standby for the night.

Other than the cost of fuel, the procedure didn't cost the Monon anything extra because the hostler worked a split shift, got paid for four hours in the evening and another four in the morning, and rarely worked over an hour morning and night.  It was the best job the Monon ever had.  The regular man Clarence Stone (Stony) was a fixture on it, but I always took it whenever there was a vacancy on it.  / Ron

PS, if there wasn't an engine change at Lafayette, they fueled there too, both ways.  They were very particular about having engines fully fueled.  When engines came to the shop, whether it was for routine maintenance or heavy repairs, they were always fueled before they were put in the building.

PS2, I've attached the picture I think you were asking about.           

[Rick Dreistadt]

Great info, fellas.  Thanks.  One thing that fascinated me was that, if two engines with the same size fuel tanks, were fueled at the same time, if one ran out of fuel, the other would be out of fuel within a very, very short time.  They seemed to burn about exactly the same amount of fuel.  Did you notice the same thing, Ron?
Rick

[Ron Marquardt]

That's true Rick, but when they were MU'd, they'd always be running in the same throttle position, so if the filters were clean, and the governors were set right, they should all be burning about the same amount.  On the Monon though, we rarely had any problems with units running out of fuel, did we?  / Ron

[Rick Dreistadt]

No. Very few fuel problems on the Monon.  At least if a commercial dealer needed to be called, they came promptly, knowing they would be paid ASAP.  With the L&N and predecessors, commercial trucks hesitated to refuel a locomotive because they couldn't wait forever and a day for the railroad to pay them. Those fuel bills had to go thru a hundred different hands before someone would authorize payment.
Rick