Author Topic: Watch Question  (Read 8878 times)

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Tom Kepshire

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Watch Question
« on: June 22, 2013, 10:12:11 pm »
This su[not allowed]ect was probably answered before on the old List, but I received a question about Monon timepieces via the web site.

"What the official time inspector (watchmaker) would have been for Monon Railroad in the post-War era?"

Any help or information would be appreciated.
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Mark Johnson

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2013, 03:01:33 pm »
There were watch inspectors in many towns along the line, usually listed in the Employee Timetable.

Monon ETT No. 17 (4/30/67 and the next to last one before the merger, I think) shows 'Inspectors of Watches' on page 35:

Milt Heegn, 29 E. Madison, Chicago
C.H. Bern, 5116 Wentworth Ave, Chicago
Fehring Jewelers, Hammond
Southam Watch Co, Rm. 103, Union Station, Indianapolis
Glotzbach Jewelers, Monon
Schrader Jewelers, 1605 N. 18th, Lafayette
R.K. Osborne, Bloomington
McGee Jewelers, 823 15th St., Bedford
Tom Bellows, Salem
J.O. Endris & Son, 230 Pearl St, New Albany
R. Weinberg, 3010A Bardstown Road, Louisville

Here's a good quiz question: How many of these watchmakers/jewelers are still in business today?

Watchmakers weren't as numerous as company doctors, but there were quite a few...

Mark J
Columbia MO

Sharon Eberhard

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2013, 05:49:56 pm »
Dad swore that Ken Carnahan of Nicewander Jewelers walked on water. (Nicewanders was in downtown Lafayette.)   He would take his Hamilton pocket watch to Ken for adjustment, etc.  I have that watch now over 100 yrs old and it still keeps good time.

Tom Kepshire

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2013, 07:51:40 pm »
Thanks for the information. I shall pass it along and let him do the leg work.
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Ron Marquardt

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #4 on: June 23, 2013, 10:43:33 pm »
When we talk about watches, let's not compare apples with oranges.  The crafts which required a "standard" pocket watch were the engineers, comductors, firemen, trainmen, and track section foremen.  In other words, those directly concerned with train movements.  Dispatchers and operators of course worked with standard time, but they had standard clocks at their locations, and I don't know if they were required to carry a standard pocket watch or not.  Maybe Rick can answer that question.  There may have been a few other positions that required a standard watch, but I don't remember them if there were.

Employees required to carry a standard pocket watch had to have it marked up periodically, and it had to be at least a 21 jewel model with Montgomery (bold and black numbers) dial.  When I hired out we had to have our waches marked up every six months by a certified watch inspector, those being listed in the employee timetables or special instructions.  In earlier times when watches were not as dependable, they had to be marked up more frequently, even as often as every month.  I carried my father's 23 jewel Hamilton 950B Railway Special, and I still maintain it in excellent running condition.  Two years ago I had to have the main spring replaced, and it cost $300.  I suspect that's about three or four times what the watch cost dad when he bought it new back in the 20's or 30's.

When a watch was marked up, the owner was required to carry a watch card while on duty, and we were often asked to see them by supervisors.   

A lot of railroad men who were not required to carry standard watches carried pockets watches anyway, but these were often 17 or 19 jewels, and it was not necessary to have them "marked up".

When operators went on duty, or at least once a day where there were operators all three shifts, they had to compare their standard clocks with the standard clock in the dispatcher's office.  Again, Rick can tell us more about how this was done.  Then when crews went on duty, we would compare our pocket watches with the standard clocks at that location, or if we went on duty where there was no standard clock, the conductor would call the dispatcher to get the exact time, then the rest of the crew would compare our watches with his.  If our pocket watches varied more than +/- 30 seconds from standard time in a 24 hour period, we had to take them in for servicing or repairs.

The first wrist watch that qualified to be marked up and used as a standard watch was the Ball Trainmaster self winding watch.  I have one of those too, but I never used it as an engineer.  The next wrist watch to be qualified was the Accutron battery operated.  They may have been others after those, but I don't remember what they were.

The modern methods of dispatching trains have, as far as I know, rendered the use of standard clocks and watches pretty much redundant, but I can remember a time on the Monon when our lives depended on good pocket watches, and I've seen several times when I'd given about everything I owned for just one or two more minutes of running time.  / Ron
« Last Edit: June 23, 2013, 11:27:04 pm by Ron Marquardt »

Robert Wheeler

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2013, 05:52:05 pm »
Thanks Ron for your explanation.


There were general orders posted every January and June reminding about the required watch inspections. There are  books of General Orders from the 1940s in the WHQ Archives.


Back in the 1950s when I was "loafing" at the Big-4 (NYC) Depot in Fowler, IN each day the telegraph at about 10:55 am regular traffic would stop. There would be a series of regular clicks (Dots?) about 1 second apart until 11:59, then they would stop and there was silence. Then there would be a dot at exactly 11:00:00 (Noon Eastern Standard Time) and regular traffic would resume. The agent-operator would adjust the depot clock, if necessary and all others around at that time would check their timepieces. This telegraph signal came from the Naval Observatory in Washington, D. C.  Radios later had a similar sort of signal on  short wave station WWV except it would be more often throughout the day with the voice message: “WWV National Bureau of Standards. When the tone returns, the Eastern Standard time will be [time]”.


Bit of trivia today I have two Seiko digital watches and I check them with the US Government Time Signal on the computer at http://www.time.gov/timezone.cgi?Eastern/d/-5/java from time to time. The more expensive gold one loses time regularly and I set it with the Stainless Steel one which is off less than a minute in several years!
« Last Edit: June 26, 2013, 04:26:54 pm by Robert Wheeler »
Robert E. Wheeler, PE, Archivist Emeritus rewheeler@iquest.net
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Ken Weller

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2013, 06:50:11 pm »
Thanks for all of this info about RR watches.  Would make a good article in THL.
K Weller

Rick Dreistadt

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2013, 09:15:45 pm »
Yes, dispatchers had to have watches.  I still have mine.  Don't use it often, but when I wind it up, it runs perfectly.  One dispatcher, JC Stayton made a beautiful watch holder for us to put our watches in while on duty.  It was made of walnut and had fabric in the backing.Wonder what ever happened to it?

The time which came over the telegraph at Fowler also came over the Monon wires. Yes, the agents and operators along the line were suppose to check their time clocks daily, but most of them never did unless they had had a power outage.Waldo Witmer at Orleans and Lloyd Kimble at Mitchell were very conscientious about checking their time whenever they came on duty.

One interesting tidbit, the watch inspector at Midland was listed as M.S. Newgent. Mancil was the agent at Midland and new about as much as watches as I do.  But if it was ticking at the time of inspection, he marked it OK.  One switchman at Midland, Homer Bennett, hadn't had his watch inspected since about 1949.

Rick Dreistadt

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2013, 09:24:55 pm »
After re-reading my post, one thing I didn't mention was the obvious, operators and agents along the line could check their time with the telegraphic code sent at 11 AM from Washington, as well as checking with the dispatcher.
Rick

Stew Winstandley

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #9 on: June 25, 2013, 10:09:55 pm »
A friend told me this evening that railroad pocket watches by rules could not have a flip cover and roman numerals were not allowed.

Stew

Ron Marquardt

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #10 on: June 26, 2013, 12:30:10 am »
He told you right Stew.  A "standard" railroad pocket watch had to have an open face with a Montgomery dial (bold regular numbers), and had to be at least 21 jewels.  Railroaders who were not required to carry standard watches could pretty much have anything they wanted.  / Ron

Gene Remaly

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #11 on: August 31, 2013, 08:03:14 am »
Was it a requirement that the watch have a glass crystal ?  The reason that it would not compress down and stop the hands like plastic

Was there a "lever set, or winde " model ?

Ron Marquardt

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Re: Watch Question
« Reply #12 on: August 31, 2013, 10:35:03 am »
Gene, I never heard anything about a standard watch needing a glass crystal, but back in those days we didn't have any plastic anyway.  I can understand why it would need to by crystal though.

A standard watch had to have a lever set so the time could not be changed accidentally.  In transportation it also had to be at least a 21 jewel, and have a Montgomery dial (bold, black, non-roman numbers).  I carried my dad's Hamilton 23 jewel 950B Railway Special.  Good watch.  / Ron